Paris with Eiffel Tower - Microsoft Flight Simulator for Windows 95Paris with Eiffel Tower - Microsoft Flight Simulator for Windows 95

Simulation is the last group discussion belonging to Season 18. Once again, it has taken place in 3 different countries: Armenia, France and Korea. The notion of simulation is one of the shared concepts within our different references and researches. was a part of the conceptual constitution of this notion. This last group discussion was an open conversation to share various questions and experiences on this subject.

Meanwhile, we were facing the last concrete phase of the collective elaboration. We have chosen to work with Pied la Biche on the construction of the display for next episode, the forthcoming collective exhibition entitled “The Inescapable Experience of Transition” opening at le Magasin on the 30th of May. The current episode is a work-in-progress concerning the conceptual simulation of the exhibition in relation with the final project’s identity.

Episode 09 was moderated by Elodie Dufour and Tolga Taluy.

Elodie Dufour: We would like first to say to you that Tolga and I discussed about this notion of simulation in different contexts, as the game play one. In order to search and develop our overview of this concept, we started to contact different professional from different fields as, psychology and sociology applied to the medias (Michael Stora, Psychologist and Psychoanalyst, Etienne Armand Amato, PhD in Information Science and Communication, Wafaa Bilal, Artist). For this GD on the simulation notion, our idea was to invite an interlocutor in a Skype chat in order to present the blog part of our curatorial project and approach this notion in our specific context of a simulated group format. Unfortunately, it was for availability reason, impossible to organize it. So, for today we propose to you to start this GD by contextualize this notion in the work-in progress of the last part of our curatorial collective proposition, the finale realization.

Marlène Perronet: Then it is like something very concrete, kind of the opposite of simulation I guess. We would treat the notion of simulation in the frame of its applications: “Kriesgspiles”, its dangers, the games, the avatars, e-learning and cure, etc. It would be one of the angles, dealing with others. A subject inside of a corpus, a theme.

Tolga Taluy: OK - if I may contextualize the theme of this discussion once again, I would say that we share a common interest about a specific use of simulations in a very specific context. We would like to use this space on a collaborative level, by bringing new material as Diane and Marlène has previously done with the episode concerning the modeling. As you already know, simulation can be roughly defined as the imitation of reality. It is used in various levels, from military training to entertainment. The first question I would like to bring up is to ask you your own interest in regards of simulations.

ED: And to complete this, you probably know that simulation have to be differentiating to play game. Simulation could be more linked to a learning situation by taking part in a simulated but realistic situation (medical, military…) and play game is mostly an entertainment situation. The play game dedicated to play. The thin frontier between the both is currently a debate and can sometimes be denunciate as a risky consequence. According to me, simulation is specific in its imitation of the context, it proposes to play within a imitated context but embodied as a non-virtual human being. So in our context, it is interesting.

Diane Pigeau: My particular interest in the use of Simulation, in regards of the project I’m involved in, are specially the way to use the protocol of a system and make some modifications in the form or in the content borrowed to an other one. For example in BorderXing Guide, Heath Bunting deals with the main representation of Frontier as lines to cross, and experiments the way to cross them on specific point without controls. He archives all these points, data and then transfers them in another world. A world which has an open representation: the web. And how he simulates the representations borders and checkpoints avoided during his physical trip with the addition of control access to the data on his website.

ED: We can really consider it as an interactive situation and concept also, because it is towards interactions that it can exist. So I totally understand your point Diane.

TT: you would rather consider BorderXing Guide as a simulation rather than a documentation?

DP: I think we mainly use Simulation as a corrupted system. To answer to Tolga, I don’t take the work of Heath Bunting only as documentation. It would be a high reduced point of view. I’m not sure simulation is the only way to understand it also. But there is something close to my understanding of simulation inside of it.

Yun In Kim: My ideas of simulation have two major issues in our working, one is possible to understand for exhibition making like different kind of modeling and another possibility is related to art works as the material of exhibition. In this context, I’d like to introduce an artist, Cao Fei as an example, she uses an avatar for her works. If we interested in her works for our project, simulation can be one of subject or object for exhibition making.

ED: To simulate through virtual situation can be very useful and powerful, it is not only imitation of the reality to make a fake one. Because of the interactions between the game play and the player, it can create a new system or language, an hybrid one.

TT: Do you have an example Elodie?

ED: In the therapeutic context, the psychologist Michael Stora explained that he uses as a therapeutical tool the game play with his patients, children and teenagers. This simulation situation towards game play opens a projective space that in playing and being in interactions with, can help patients to access to their insight world. The different characters can embodied the different angles of their personality and thanks to this game play they can take back a kind of control on their fears or anxiety. It can somehow be compared as a dreamlike experience; the different characters can be a way of incarnation of the different representations of ourselves. Towards this experience, they can play and fight, to react and take a king of control on them. It is a very complex and impressive interactive dynamic, and it is been considered as a very hopeful opportunities to medical progress.

MP: This introduces a notion which is central in Alain della Negra and Kaori Kinoshita’s movies, the one of the “avatar” and following it, the question of the identity. The characters of their films meet on Second Life, the Sims, etc. and deal with different kinds of avatars, such as the “Furry”, that comes in real life in some of their movies. These videos show the junction between a player saying “I” and dealing with actually the existence of their avatars.

YIK: Elodie, I think that some people might be use avatar as a method of treatment, right? And they tried to rescue from their problem or disease through the second life. So I consider about, simulation is not just fake world, because second life has an effect on real life.

ED: I don’t know about using second life treatment.

Marianna Hovhannisyan: From my position I can observe simulation notion as very performative one, having the aspects of the play and replacement, but it is very political and larger as it relates to the different strategies which are used to build or destroy any system

YIK: As I know, some people have their mental problems, they try to treat through second life using avatar, but if I have misunderstanding…I’ll think about different aspect.

ED: This psychologist, Michael Stora, explained to me that he works with game play to specifically play and to reactivate the insight nods. And I don’t know about second life situation as a curating tool. Isn’t it very and mostly too much a realistic representation of you? Metaphoric situation helps the projective and cathartic movements.

YIK: I know that concept of second life but I’d like to talk about using avatars in second life and I mentioned before that second life is not so much a fake world as other space in our real life.

MH: As I told I see the simulation mostly like another system working not only as a transformation from real-to not real (this is another aspect), but more when you replace the notion of simulation in the largest contexts trying to see it from political and cultural corners I recognize it very strategically and even like promotion of a big network where you can get lost

TT: Can you explain a little bit more the “political and cultural corners” Marianna?

ED: Can you say more about the links with the simulation please, in this geopolitic reality marianna?

MH: Elodie I am not someone so politically correct but if I transfer this position to my project part on one example of the letter I found for the proposal, the “code”-letter, where the person who writes it he has used a certain simulation in order to survive, not to be caught by the authorities.

ED: Sure you are.

MP: Simulation vs dissimulation!

ED: Sometimes simulation can from hidden part be very powerful and sometimes can help to show by hidden.

TT: Again, don’t you think this belongs more on cryptography than simulation? There are other systems than simulation, don’t you think so?

DP: What seems to me quite difficult is : we are in our last GD. We talked previously around mapping, modeling and now simulation, which was the one most simple to understand without any dictionnary. Elodie and Tolga specifically worked hard on it. As Marlene and I previously on modeling. And Yun In and Marianna on Mapping. But here we don’t use it. As usual, we put a part thing and don’t join them together. And so speak in the air.

MH: So if I get Diane you suggest really seeing it on our group moDEl? Like a certain notion to close the whole process which we experienced and worked on?

DP: I suggest nothing. I’m not moderator. It’s my feeling that’s it.

TT: Personally, I didn’t understand exactly what you were mentioning - what is your suggestion? If I remind you, the first question of this discussion was about your own interest in regards of simulations.

MP: So… We just free talk on our own link to simulation

DP: Maybe it was because we took as usual again the use of “your own interest” in the wrong way.

TT: I mean - come on - of course this is not about your opinion on Microsoft fight Simulator X and the way they have modeled the Eiffel tower! Of course, it is in a particular context! Hopefully we know this already since a few months now.

MP : So, re-ask your question more clearly than “the first question I would like to bring up is to ask you your own interest in regards of simulations”.

DP: Yes as Elodie mentioned it already. It’s like if we followed an unconsciousness scenario each time.

TT: The question has been broadly answered during the discussion anyway. So maybe we should end this group discussion here by revealing to the world Season 18 was a big joke and that it never existed.